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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
266
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Posted - 2015.10.22 11:57:02 -
[1] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I don't see why they should be removed. Nobody is forced to install them.
Exactly. You don't need to remove implants in exchange for boosters, both can coexist peacefully.
The thing I don't like about cerebral boosters are that they cannot be destroyed upon pod death, and they introduce more of a grind as they are time limited, whereas implants are not.
So implants are better than these enhancers and fill a different niche, but I think enhancers still add another nice element. Have a look at this proposal which I think would improve their implementation further.
Proposal
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
268
|
Posted - 2015.10.23 09:03:16 -
[2] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Malcanis wrote:What's wrong with an "as well as" solution rather than an "instead of"? Yes, we have been over this before. I have no objection to an 'and' solution, especially if they cannot be stacked. I am assuming that the decision to remove attributes/learning implants has already been made but perhaps this is incorrect.
Why would they remove Implants and replace it with boosters. If they are going to remove attributes then I can't see them adding items that would boost attributes / training time as it defeats the purpose. As it stands implants offer a couple of benefits over enhancers.
1. Implants are not time limited and so do not induce as much of a grind (if you buy +4s and you go on holiday then the +4s are still there when you get back)
2. Implants are destructible and so fit in the with philosophy of eve and add interesting choices and consequences.
I do think implants should be rebalanced though so that they cost less, and also pirate implants should confer higher attribute bonuses.
Tyberius Franklin wrote:The issue with learning implants is their ability to be lost
The opposite, that is what makes them interesting and gives you a meaningful decision. If you are playing Eve and complaining about having to make choices which result in consequences, ie losing implants, then you probably are playing the wrong game.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
268
|
Posted - 2015.10.24 09:14:33 -
[3] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Whether you work that out a bit to being about "grinding" or "risk aversion" the fundamental issue always boils down to their ability to be lost and having an associated cost for replacement.
So using your logic once we buy a ship (let us say a thorax) then when you lose that thorax you should respawn back in your station with a new thorax..
The concept of eve has always been about everything being destructible (unless it involves micro-transaction more recently). So I don't need to take anything up with CCP as that is their clear position since day one. So I have no idea where you got it into your head that CCP doesn't want implants or anything else to be destructible (care to link source?), and where you feel entitled to respawn back in your base without losing anything.
So hence when I said are you sure you are playing the right game it was incredibly apt.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
269
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 00:19:46 -
[4] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Whether you work that out a bit to being about "grinding" or "risk aversion" the fundamental issue always boils down to their ability to be lost and having an associated cost for replacement. So using your logic once we buy a ship (let us say a thorax) then when you lose that thorax you should respawn back in your station with a new thorax.. The concept of eve has always been about everything being destructible (unless it involves micro-transaction more recently). So I don't need to take anything up with CCP as that is their clear position since day one. So I have no idea where you got it into your head that CCP doesn't want implants or anything else to be destructible (care to link source?), and where you feel entitled to respawn back in your base without losing anything. So hence when I said are you sure you are playing the right game it was incredibly apt. As stated, you have an issue with the reasoning, take it up qith ccp where it originated. Aguing with me as if it were my reasoning after i already pointed you at the source isn't too bright an argument. Read the csm minutes btw. If you did then youd know exactly why I'm pointing this back at ccp. Their "clear position" isn't so clear for those of us that bother to stay informed.
CSM minutes are in no way a good indication of CCPs official position, it is simply a place where ideas are thrown around and much of it doesn't stick. And even then I still see no source to your wild claim that CCP don't like that implants are destructible.
So again, please link your source (I doubt that you can because what you wrote is not CCPs official or unofficial position and is basically nonsense to try and backup your own argument / desire).
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
|
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
269
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 16:41:21 -
[5] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Whether you work that out a bit to being about "grinding" or "risk aversion" the fundamental issue always boils down to their ability to be lost and having an associated cost for replacement. So using your logic once we buy a ship (let us say a thorax) then when you lose that thorax you should respawn back in your station with a new thorax.. The concept of eve has always been about everything being destructible (unless it involves micro-transaction more recently). So I don't need to take anything up with CCP as that is their clear position since day one. So I have no idea where you got it into your head that CCP doesn't want implants or anything else to be destructible (care to link source?), and where you feel entitled to respawn back in your base without losing anything. So hence when I said are you sure you are playing the right game it was incredibly apt. As stated, you have an issue with the reasoning, take it up qith ccp where it originated. Aguing with me as if it were my reasoning after i already pointed you at the source isn't too bright an argument. Read the csm minutes btw. If you did then youd know exactly why I'm pointing this back at ccp. Their "clear position" isn't so clear for those of us that bother to stay informed. CSM minutes are in no way a good indication of CCPs official position, it is simply a place where ideas are thrown around and much of it doesn't stick. And even then I still see no source to your wild claim that CCP don't like that implants are destructible. So again, please link your source (I doubt that you can because what you wrote is not CCPs official or unofficial position and is basically nonsense to try and backup your own argument / desire). My desire is that implants and attributes stay intact. Not sure what you're implying i need to justify. But I also know CCP proposed the removal of attributes and stated the major barrier was the learning implants and needing to replace them in some form. Like i said, the reasoning isn'tmine and the conclusion isn't one i endorse, but I also know what's been written. I'm just not in denial about what the devs say is all. Also: CSM 9 winter meeting minutes and thread stating the attribute were looking at being removed with learning implants as the major barrier.
Again there is nothing in the sources which you linked to back up your claim that CCP dislikes implants because they are destructible.
It seems you may be confusing / conflating things as you seem to agree with me that implants are a valued addition to the game. I think you have misunderstood CCPs position, CCP have never said (AFAIK) that they dislike implants because they are destructible. They have mentioned they are unhappy with attributes due to the fact they are confusing for new players, but again nothing about implants being destructible.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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